Church of England bishop says gays should ‘repent’ – USATODAY.com

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7 Responses to “Church of England bishop says gays should ‘repent’ – USATODAY.com”

  1. jbintenn Says:

    Boy is this a sensitive subject……….

    I have to say in love that the Bible makes it very clear that homosexuality is wrong.

    I also have to say in love that we need to remember that it is the sin of homosexuality that is hated, not the person doing the sin. God hates sin of any kind, not the sinner.

    The issue should never be over whether homosexuality is something genetically engrained in a person or a socially learned behaviour but rather that it is sin and we are all born sinners. That is undisputable if you read the Bible in full context and accept its full intent, not just part of it.

    Perhaps this Bishop should be applauded, therefore, for NOT changing his views and staying true to his God. God has not changed nor His word but we have apparently. Does that make it right?

  2. jbintenn Says:

    “GoldDust (0 friends, send message) wrote: 9h 55m ago
    JBinTenn2 (0 friends, send message) wrote:13m ago
    Boy is this a sensitive subject……….
    I have to say in love that the Bible makes it very clear that homosexuality is wrong.
    =================
    Well not really. The Old Testament says that it is wrong but it says that along with rules that say people should be stoned to death for swearing (Leviticus 24:16) and that women should be stoned to death for breaking off an engagement and going with someone else(Deuteronomy 22:23). Does your church follow those rules?

    Meanwhile the New Testament hardly says anything about homosexuality. Romans talks about relationships based on lust only which is not what gay marriage or committed gay relationships are about and that’s about it. The usual verse in Corinthians does not say anything about homosexuality in the original Greek, only in English translations.

    However 1 Corinthians 14 33-35 is very clear that women may never speak in Church and must wait until they get home to ask questions then only of their husband. Does your church follow that rule?

    Clearly the conservative churches have carefully selected verses and translations that support their own moral points of view while ignoring those that do not. Except for verses that are obviously archaic the Bible says nothing about committed gay relationships or gay marriage”

    *******************************************************************************************************************

    First of all, Jesus changed everything by God’s design so we now have the New Covenant to follow in the New Testament. Therefore, in love I have to say that you are showing ignorance if you begin pulling verses out of the Old Testament to make your case. Having said that, many of the verses in the Old Testament are applicable for us today, again by God’s design, but you to have to understand His intent for us in full to be able to see this and understand it. God can help you understand if you open your heart and ask Him.

    Secondly, the New Testament is very clear that homosexuality is a sin and that it is wrong. Again, in love I say open your heart and then ask God to help you understand and then read the entire New Testament in its full context.

    Thirdly, the verse you highlight in Corinthians talks about women not being allowed to interpret or test speaking in tongues and/or concerning prophecy in the Church, not about women keeping silent in general. And so you do have Churches/denominations today that absolutely follow this verse to the letter. Again it is part of the New Covenant but is one of those that could be easily misinterpreted or loosely defined.

    The topic of homosexuality, however, is not one of those that can nor should be misinterpreted. His Word is quite clear in defining it as sin that should be repented and removed from our lives. We are born into this world sinners, whether that involves being sexually oriented another way or not, but it does not change the fact that it(homosexuality ) is sin and just like all sin, it will keep us apart from God. If you ask God to help you understand his Word and then read God’s Word in full context and with the full intent, He will help you understand this and He will deliver those truly seeking His will from any sin in our lives.

    Ask Jesus to come into your heart and life today and you will begin to see what I am talking about.

  3. jbintenn Says:

    MenaC (59 friends, send message) wrote: 5m ago
    dudebreitbarth (0 friends, send message) wrote: 7m ago
    u can’t b gay and a christian just like u can’t b a patriotic american and a democrat, these things r total opposites of one another
    +++++++++++
    I’m gay and a Christian. I’m also Indepent and a patriotic American.”

    **************************************************************************************************************************

    MenaC, thank you for the courage to post here. This is a very difficult subject, especailly in today’s world. I just want you to know that I love you and God loves you, first and foremost, for who you are. But I also must tell you that one of Satan’s greatest deceits today is to have all of us believe that homosexuality is okay. It is not. But there is good news. God can deliver us from sin through Jesus Christ, if we will just open our hearts and minds and truly repent of ALL sin. It has to start with first believing His Word in full and realizing that homosexuality is a sin. He can and will deliver us from any sin, if we truly ask Him.

    May I ask that you take some time to think and pray about this. May I also ask that you seek out others who were once living a lie as well and get encouragement from them. There are many former homosexuals who have been delivered from Satan’s lie and they can help you get through it. God Bless You.

  4. jbintenn Says:

    “MenaC (59 friends, send message) wrote: 7m ago
    JBinTenn2 (0 friends, send message) wrote: 7m ago
    May I ask that you take some time to think and pray about this. May I also ask that you seek out others who were once living a lie as well and get encouragement from them. There are many former homosexuals who have been delivered from Satan’s lie and they can help you get through it. God Bless You.
    ++++++++++++++
    I have spent many years studying and praying. I know that my sexuality is a gift from God, just as yours is. Oh, I’ve seen your ex-gays. I know that there are many more ex-ex gays than “ex gays.” No reputable doctor or psychiatrist recommends the ex-gay treatment.”

    *********************************************************************************************************************************

    Thanks much for your response.

    I am not going to try to make the case for whether I believe that homosexuality is something we are born with or whether it is actually a socially learned behaviour because in the end, to me, it does not matter. I do believe that it is possible it could be genetically engrained but that does not change the fact that it is still sin. Again we are all sinners and currently the ‘natural order’ of things by God’s design is that this world is sinful and “Sin rules” until we make the choice to repent and die to self and follow Christ as he has instructed us. We are not perfect when we are born into this world and yes, that would include disease, genetic disorders, mental disorders, etc. The point is that all of this comes from sin and it seperates us from God. The issue then for me, is what do we do about it. That is where God has clearly given us instruction if we will only listen to Him and obey.

    Do you also believe that Satan is the great deceiver? Would you also accept that Satan wants nothing more than to see us fall short and will stop at nothing to try and accomplish this? This started with Satan in the Garden of Eden as sin entered the world then and God gave us a new ‘way out’ through Jesus Christ. But the sin still remains with us until we repent fully and follow Him.

    So the question really does come down to whether we believe that homosexuality is a sin or not. It will start and end there. I believe God knew there would come a time where ‘Men’ would struggle with this and that is why he made it explicitly clear in His Word that it is a sin. The Bible also talks about a time would come where ‘good would be as evil and evil good’. I believe this topic is one of those.

  5. jbintenn Says:

    “GoldDust (0 friends, send message) wrote: 6m ago
    That being said you will notice that nowhere does Jesus himself say anything about committed gay relationships or gay marriage or gays being bishops. You would think that if it were important he would have mentioned it.”

    He did….through his Holy Spirit, which all the apostles had and yes Paul, who was not Jesus, yet was filled with the Holy Spirit which guided his written Word to become God’s Word as spoken through Paul. We can’t leave out the Holy Spirit as part of the ‘Trinity’…..the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

    This is why it is so important to understand and accept the Bible in full context and full intent.

  6. jbintenn Says:

    “MenaC (59 friends, send message) wrote: 4m ago
    After all, one thing hasn’t changed. When religious people (that’s us) read Scripture, we’re still quite capable of using it to support and affirm our own hard-heartedness. White Christians in the early nineteenth century justified slavery by the Bible. After the Civil War, they justified discrimination against blacks by the Bible. Christians have justified wars by the Bible. Christians have justified Inquisitions by the Bible. Christians have justified the subordination of women by the Bible. ~L. William Countryman (Church Divinity School of the Pacific).

    We gay people are only the latest..”

    ****************************************************************************************************************

    MenaC, please understand….it is not about ‘gay people’ but the act of homosexuality itself. . There is a huge difference there.

  7. jbintenn Says:

    “GoldDust (0 friends, send message) wrote: 8h 45m ago
    dirty-harry (0 friends, send message) wrote:7m ago …. try reading Leviticus, Chapter 18. follow that up with 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. and stop twisting the “love and compassion” thing into something it’s not. you’re making yourself look like more of a fool than you already are. the good Bishop cares about you. you only care about being a homosexual. ….
    =================

    As for 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 it says nothing about homosexuality in the original Greek. That was added later through bad translation. The word “malakoi” was translated as “effeminate” however in other translations that word usually meant “soft” referring to a lazy man or perhaps a rich man or royalty who did not work. As for the word arsenokoitai (ἀρσενοκοῖται) which was translated as “homosexuality”, no one seems to have used it before Paul so it could mean anything.”

    *****************************************************************************************************************

    GoldDust,

    Great debate and discussion……..you left out, however, that the word malakoi could also mean “loose” or “pliable,” as in the phrase “loose morals,” implying “unethical behavior.”

    I like Mr. Crater’s explanation of where we find ourselves today with this topic………”‘It [malakoi] can have a meaning that’s not carnal. But the way it’s used — it’s embedded in the same context with adultery — it’s pretty clear what the meaning is…A hallmark of Evangelicals is that we take a literal, normal, face-value interpretation of the Bible. Some people attempt to keep some form of Christianity and hold on to homosexuality, too. It leads to strange interpretations of the Bible.”

    I have always been one to support taking a ‘literal, normal, face-value interpretation of the Bible’ maybe because I like to keep things as simple as possible in my life for starters. 🙂 However, I also believe that God chooses to reveal things in His Word that he had not in previous generations……. In other words, He will reveal things to us in His Word, if only we prepare our hearts properly beforehand and come to Him with a clean pure heart. That means that we must repent of any sin in our lives at the time and then ask Him to help us understand His Word and how it applies to us today as we read it. You simply cannot have sin, any sin, stand in the way beforehand and must repent and He will reveal Himself in ways like never before. God wants us to be able to come to Him with these issues too and He wants to meet us at the point of our need. First, however, a sinful heart has to be cleaned and made pure by repenting.

    So what am I saying? We have to first have a ‘made up mind’ about what we believe homosexuality is, whether it truly is sin or not. God can help us do that. I believe if we humble ourselves and say….”God…I really don’t know the answer……help me understand the truth”, he will give us that inherent sense of right and wrong and reveal to us the truth about homosexuality in a way that each person will understand. If we have sin in our life, God can help convict us of that sin to help us realize it truly is sin and then we are ready to take the next step. God Bless You.

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